Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

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Luckee2
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Local Fishing Region: CA

Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#1 Post by Luckee2 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Apologies in advance if I am over-using my outsider's question credits -- I am a fairly obsessive planner, and after reading this no-take species page mentioning "ciguatera fish poisoning" species, concerns arise: https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/business-pri ... ed-species

Here in California there are baroque rules for which rockfish species you can and can't keep, and how many, and how large, and the only remedy is to carry a nice colorful PDF page they provide, with pictures of the forbidden fish. I've consulted it many times to see if my vermillion rockfish might actually be a canary rockfish, which could cause a world of trouble with biologists that sometimes count/identify fish at the dock. Who wants to eat an endangered fish? Not me.

Is there a page or PDF similar to that for the Queensland nasties/sickies/illegal catches? If it can be downloaded, I'll print it for sure, and if you have to go buy it I'll get the rental car thither.

Another question arising is fuel: can you buy isobutane canisters, compatible with this kind of thing (https://www.rei.com/product/768603/snow ... emax-stove), between Mackay and Shute Harbor? Or will I have to bring my liquid fuel stove, which likes white gas but can run on unleaded in a pinch!

Many many thanks! :)

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arpie
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Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#2 Post by arpie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:42 am

I am pretty sure it is NOT recommended to eat the larger Spanish Mackerel due to the ciguatera toxins. I would suggest you talk with the local Fishing tackle shops,Seafood Shops or commercial fishermen if you see any down in the bay, unloading their catch.
https://www.ryanmoodyfishing.com/how-to ... poisoning/

Here is the Gov brochure on it:
https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/__data/asset ... -ECSMF.pdf

Re your cooker - you can get those little gas canisters - you may just need to go to one of the bigger camping stores to find them. BCF have branches in most towns & carry most camping stuff.

Another shark attack this week at the Whitsundays .... sadly this guy died :cry: DO NOT GO SWIMMING unless in a pool!! Another attack yesterday at Ballina (northern NSW) he is OK. Looks like it is going to be a very sharky summer.

cheers

Roberta
(Mark's) Prostaff Member: Ten20 Rods
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XDCammer
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Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#3 Post by XDCammer » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:19 am

Red Bass, Chinaman, large Spaniards, large Coral Trout, probably a few I have missed. A couple of years ago ciguatera poisoning occurred as far south as Scotts Head in NSW. A large Spanish Mackeral was taken home for the table and resulted in poisoning. You can't see it, cook it out of the flesh, smell it, or taste it. It's just there.

It's funny how it is not present up the north coast of WA. The Pacific Islands also have it. I was reading about a man and his wife sailing around the pacific and they stopped in Vanatau. He fished off the side of his yacht and caught a Coral Trout. After gutting the fish he gave the ships cat the fish liver resulting in the death of the cat in under 5 min. The toxin is a result of Gambierdiscus Toxicus and appears when there is damage done to coral reefs, (storms, ship run agrounds etc) and it starts like an algal bloom. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambierdiscus_toxicus )

Small fish eat the coral and up it goes through the food chain. I met a guy up North Queensland who got hit by it and it's not pleasant. When he was affected by it his mates splashed his face with cold water and he said it felt like boiling water.
It's a bit like getting Malaria, it comes back after something triggers it. Wheather it be eating seafood or drinking alcohol under a certain period of time (could be six months or more) everyones different. It affects the cardio, respiratory, and nervous systems, most deaths come from dehydration.

A bloody horrible thing to get, steer clear.

BobbyB
Time spent on reconnaissance is time never wasted.

Luckee2
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 am
Local Fishing Region: CA

Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#4 Post by Luckee2 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:03 pm

Yikes, this conversation is making me think I might just go catch and release the whole time and stick to jerky and cheese :)

So sad about the shark attack. Staying in the yak will be even more of a priority than usual -- though that is of course not a guarantee that a big one won't chomp on the boat. I'll bring my luckee hat and make sure to tell everyone I love them before getting on the plane!

But unless a big storm stops me, I'm going out there for sure. All arrangements are made and now I can only slide into that Big Wait that always happens before a trip . . . had it bad before going to Canada this summer (http://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=tr ... rp_id=5177) and will be sure to have it before Baja in December as well!

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Steve R
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Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#5 Post by Steve R » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:11 pm

There's more to worry about yet. Make sure you can ID these:
  • Cone snails
  • Stonefish
  • Blue Ringed Octopus
  • Bullrout (fresh water 'cousin of the Irukandji)
You won't see these but may see warning signs:
  • Box jellyfish
  • Irukandji (a type of box jellyfish)

More comprehensive but you'll need to follow links to work them out:
http://fishesofaustralia.net.au/home/content/177
Cheers,
Steve
(Salmonaholic)
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Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing its not fish they are after - Henry Thoreau

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Steve R
KFDU 1000 Club
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:10 am
Local Fishing Region: Eden and thereabouts
Kayaks: Hurricane Skimmer; Racing TK1 (Mr Tippy).
Location: Eden

Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#6 Post by Steve R » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:11 pm

There's more to worry about yet. Make sure you can ID these:
  • Cone snails
  • Stonefish
  • Blue Ringed Octopus
  • Bullrout (fresh water 'cousin of the Stonefish)
You won't see these but may see warning signs:
  • Box jellyfish
  • Irukandji (a type of box jellyfish)

More comprehensive but you'll need to follow links to work them out:
http://fishesofaustralia.net.au/home/content/177
Cheers,
Steve
(Salmonaholic)
Image
Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing its not fish they are after - Henry Thoreau

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NorthSIKer
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Re: Identifying the illegal and dangerous fish

#7 Post by NorthSIKer » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:30 pm

Sorry, not sure where you get a good guide to the fishes but assume the local tackle stores will have.

There is a BCF (Boating Camping Fishing - a major chain in Australia) store at Cannonvale (which is the suburbs just before you go into Arlie Beach). They have the gas canisters that you are after. Otherwise, white gas (we call it shelite) is available at most supermarkets, hardware stores and some service stations in Australia.

With the fishing a few things to consider:
- Green Zones (no fishing zones) - already mentioned.
- No take species. Some species (e.g. barramundi cod (mouse grouper), maori wrasse, etc) are not permitted to be taken at all.
- Size limits (you are all across this).
- Ciguatera is not common provided a few basic precautions. Some fish (e.g. chinaman fish, red bass) are on the no-take species list as they are high ciguatera risk due to the bait species they like to consume and/or they are slower growing species that accumulate the toxin well. For your other reef species sticking to keeping the smaller to medium fish will greatly reduce the risk. This also has the benefit of the smaller ones generally being better eating and the big fish being the most productive breeders (so best ones to let live). Some of the species you will likely encounter (e.g. grunter, nanygai, school mackerel, sweetlip) are low risk species generally so very unlikely to have an issue with them of any size. Always worth a chat with the local staff at the tackle store when you get your supplies.
- Sharks: Very strange and sad what has happened recently at Cid Harbour but not usually a significant risk. The worst sharks in Australia for kayakers are the Great Whites (which aren't found that far north) as they ambush and charge. Tiger sharks are much more considered in the way they approach their prey and not considered the same risk (at least to kayakers). You may occassionally have a reef shark grab your rudder (has happened to me twice in about 10 years) which is a shock, but not lasting damage.
- Stingers: Definitely the most likely risk (other than sunburn/skin cancer). Good news is, cover up and you are completely safe from them (they can't even sting through pantyhose - indeed they can't even sting through the thicker skin on your fingertips!). A second benefit of wearing head to toe cover is that you don't get sunburnt (covers another risk). A disadvantage is that you look can like a weirdo all covered up (you would have seen 'the look' in my video :lol: ) which is particularly an issue for some younger types as there are lots of young international tourists to impress in that part of the world.
- Cone shells, stonefish, etc are all possible but I have yet to see any (alive). If you spent lots of time wondering the reefy or rocky flats you may find some, but otherwise pretty unlikely. Not like those things chase you up the beach.

Don't get all worked up thinking it is really bad. You've got to remember that thousands of people are on and in the water in that area most days of the year (it is a big place). The three recent shark attacks are strange and disturbing but overall, over many years very little bad has happened.

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